BoneGnawer (talk | contribs) (→Other suggestions: proposed wording of what I think we've agreed to.) |
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+ | <b><font size="3" color=red>This is an open discussion, not just an admin thing. If any other editors have any opinions on these subjects, please voice them.</font></b> |
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+ | --[[User:BoneGnawer|BoneGnawer]] 14:42, 6 November 2007 (UTC)</div></div> |
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::::So, a picture of Elongated Man could be from any of his appearances, seeing as there was no redesign but only variations? ― '''[[User talk:Thailog|<font color="red">T</font>]][[User:Thailog|<font color="blue">hailog</font>]]''' 19:17, 1 November 2007 (UTC) |
::::So, a picture of Elongated Man could be from any of his appearances, seeing as there was no redesign but only variations? ― '''[[User talk:Thailog|<font color="red">T</font>]][[User:Thailog|<font color="blue">hailog</font>]]''' 19:17, 1 November 2007 (UTC) |
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:::::Yes. The primary issue I had, which I believe you agreed with was in the previous EM image, he was suffering from ''"triangle chest"''. It was therefore an atypical representation since his other appearances showed him as his more conventional tall & thin self. --[[User:BoneGnawer|BoneGnawer]] 19:50, 1 November 2007 (UTC) |
:::::Yes. The primary issue I had, which I believe you agreed with was in the previous EM image, he was suffering from ''"triangle chest"''. It was therefore an atypical representation since his other appearances showed him as his more conventional tall & thin self. --[[User:BoneGnawer|BoneGnawer]] 19:50, 1 November 2007 (UTC) |
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− | ::::::Ah. Agreed, then. ― '''[[User talk:Thailog|<font color="red">T</font>]][[User:Thailog|<font color="blue">hailog</font>]]''' 21:11, 1 November 2007 (UTC) |
+ | ::::::<s>Ah. Agreed, then.</s> ― '''[[User talk:Thailog|<font color="red">T</font>]][[User:Thailog|<font color="blue">hailog</font>]]''' 21:11, 1 November 2007 (UTC) |
+ | *I'm reopening this per [[#Character_Info_Box_Image_Contradiction_Discussion|here]]. ― '''[[User talk:Thailog|<font color="red">T</font>]][[User:Thailog|<font color="blue">hailog</font>]]''' 10:39, 8 December 2007 (UTC) |
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*It should show as much as possible of the character (full-body). |
*It should show as much as possible of the character (full-body). |
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* Closeups are bad: agreed |
* Closeups are bad: agreed |
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− | * Full-body shots in the infobox: I prefer full-body or close to it. IMO, |
+ | * Full-body shots in the infobox: I prefer full-body or close to it. IMO, Curaré.jpg is a perfect infobox image. It gives a complete visual reference of who the article is about. I agree in concept that the more images there are in an article, the less important it is to have a full body shot in the infobox. However, we need to come up with rules and/or guidelines that will avert or settle disputes. How many images is enough to preclude a full-body shot? Regardless of the number of images, I think infoboxes ought to show a character from at least the waist up. Image:Martianmnahunter.jpg is a perfect example of an infobox image for a large article with multiple images. As agreed above, face closeups are bad. --[[User:BoneGnawer|BoneGnawer]] 17:13, 1 November 2007 (UTC) |
:*I think [[Curaré]] is in the same league as [[Speedy]]. The article is not likely to include more pictures, so something like that is necessary. ― '''[[User talk:Thailog|<font color="red">T</font>]][[User:Thailog|<font color="blue">hailog</font>]]''' 18:13, 1 November 2007 (UTC) |
:*I think [[Curaré]] is in the same league as [[Speedy]]. The article is not likely to include more pictures, so something like that is necessary. ― '''[[User talk:Thailog|<font color="red">T</font>]][[User:Thailog|<font color="blue">hailog</font>]]''' 18:13, 1 November 2007 (UTC) |
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<blockquote>''However, we need to come up with rules and/or guidelines that will avert or settle disputes. How many images is enough to preclude a full-body shot?''</blockquote> |
<blockquote>''However, we need to come up with rules and/or guidelines that will avert or settle disputes. How many images is enough to preclude a full-body shot?''</blockquote> |
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− | :I think it's not about number, but about content. If one picture within the article showcases the character's full likeness (or close to it), that should be enough to preclude a full-body shot from the infobox. |
+ | :I think it's not about number, but about content. If one picture within the article showcases the character's full likeness (or close to it), that should be enough to preclude a full-body shot from the infobox. DarkseidSTAS.jpg and Catwoman8.jpg seem like too different but equally acceptable prospects. ― '''[[User talk:Thailog|<font color="red">T</font>]][[User:Thailog|<font color="blue">hailog</font>]]''' 18:13, 1 November 2007 (UTC) |
− | <blockquote>''Regardless of the number of images, I think infoboxes ought to show a character from at least the waist up. |
+ | <blockquote>''Regardless of the number of images, I think infoboxes ought to show a character from at least the waist up. Image:Martianmnahunter.jpg is a perfect example of an infobox image for a large article with multiple images.''</blockquote> |
:Agreed. ― '''[[User talk:Thailog|<font color="red">T</font>]][[User:Thailog|<font color="blue">hailog</font>]]''' 18:13, 1 November 2007 (UTC) |
:Agreed. ― '''[[User talk:Thailog|<font color="red">T</font>]][[User:Thailog|<font color="blue">hailog</font>]]''' 18:13, 1 November 2007 (UTC) |
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* But this too shouldn't be grounds for swapping images. If an article only has one waist up image (in the infobox), then it shouldn't be replaced with a full body shot — unless of course the article conforms with the criteria of [[Curaré]] and [[Speedy]] — the body shot should be included in the article's body. |
* But this too shouldn't be grounds for swapping images. If an article only has one waist up image (in the infobox), then it shouldn't be replaced with a full body shot — unless of course the article conforms with the criteria of [[Curaré]] and [[Speedy]] — the body shot should be included in the article's body. |
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::''If an article contains 3 images or more (including the infobox), an image from the character's waist up is sufficient for the infobox. At least one of the images in the article should depict the character's full body, or the images as a group should show enough angles to give a full impression of the character. An article with two or fewer images should have a full body shot, or as close to one as possible, in the infobox. |
::''If an article contains 3 images or more (including the infobox), an image from the character's waist up is sufficient for the infobox. At least one of the images in the article should depict the character's full body, or the images as a group should show enough angles to give a full impression of the character. An article with two or fewer images should have a full body shot, or as close to one as possible, in the infobox. |
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:--[[User:BoneGnawer|BoneGnawer]] 14:37, 6 November 2007 (UTC) |
:--[[User:BoneGnawer|BoneGnawer]] 14:37, 6 November 2007 (UTC) |
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+ | :::I like it. ― '''[[User talk:Thailog|<font color="red">T</font>]][[User:Thailog|<font color="blue">hailog</font>]]''' 14:55, 6 November 2007 (UTC) |
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*It should be a shot from the waist up. |
*It should be a shot from the waist up. |
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* Images should remain unaltered. Any changes of color levels, shading, brightness, contrast, alpha, etc., should be avoided, unless justified and according to consensus. |
* Images should remain unaltered. Any changes of color levels, shading, brightness, contrast, alpha, etc., should be avoided, unless justified and according to consensus. |
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:* I would prefer cropping everything to 4:3 unless that would crop out part of the item being depicted. 4:3 images look better IMO, but that's obviously POV. I think the rules as written should be fine, unless we add the follwing note: |
:* I would prefer cropping everything to 4:3 unless that would crop out part of the item being depicted. 4:3 images look better IMO, but that's obviously POV. I think the rules as written should be fine, unless we add the follwing note: |
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::If there is enough "dead space" in a 16:9 image to crop it to a 4:3 aspect without losing any of the subject, then it should have the dead space cropped out.'' |
::If there is enough "dead space" in a 16:9 image to crop it to a 4:3 aspect without losing any of the subject, then it should have the dead space cropped out.'' |
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− | ::Example |
+ | ::Example Superconfident.jpg.--[[User:BoneGnawer|BoneGnawer]] 19:42, 1 November 2007 (UTC) |
:::I think you misunderstood me. I'm not proposing to remove the cropping rule. I'm proposing to add the aforementioned item about color, brightness and whatnot. I also think that "dead space" should be cropped out (which is basically what the current rule says, "''If images contain unsightly segments that distract from the primary image...''"). That is, unless the "dead space" is somehow relevant or pertinent to the article (for context or whatever), then it should be kept. ― '''[[User talk:Thailog|<font color="red">T</font>]][[User:Thailog|<font color="blue">hailog</font>]]''' 21:11, 1 November 2007 (UTC) |
:::I think you misunderstood me. I'm not proposing to remove the cropping rule. I'm proposing to add the aforementioned item about color, brightness and whatnot. I also think that "dead space" should be cropped out (which is basically what the current rule says, "''If images contain unsightly segments that distract from the primary image...''"). That is, unless the "dead space" is somehow relevant or pertinent to the article (for context or whatever), then it should be kept. ― '''[[User talk:Thailog|<font color="red">T</font>]][[User:Thailog|<font color="blue">hailog</font>]]''' 21:11, 1 November 2007 (UTC) |
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::::O.K., Lets keep the cropping rule but reword it. "Unsightly elements" is open to wide interpretation. How about: |
::::O.K., Lets keep the cropping rule but reword it. "Unsightly elements" is open to wide interpretation. How about: |
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::::--[[User:BoneGnawer|BoneGnawer]] 15:33, 5 November 2007 (UTC) |
::::--[[User:BoneGnawer|BoneGnawer]] 15:33, 5 November 2007 (UTC) |
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:::::Agreed. ― '''[[User talk:Thailog|<font color="red">T</font>]][[User:Thailog|<font color="blue">hailog</font>]]''' 20:06, 5 November 2007 (UTC) |
:::::Agreed. ― '''[[User talk:Thailog|<font color="red">T</font>]][[User:Thailog|<font color="blue">hailog</font>]]''' 20:06, 5 November 2007 (UTC) |
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+ | == Character Info Box Image Contradiction Discussion == |
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+ | # The introductory paragraph and infobox picture should be written/taken from the point of view of the series where the character has the most appearances.<br>'''Example:''' [[Batman (Terry McGinnis)|Terry McGinnis]]' infobox pic is taken from {{bb}}, [[Static]]'s is taken from {{ss}}.<br>'''Note:''' For the purposes of determining which series a character has the most appearances in, {{btas}} and {{tnba}} are considered one series. |
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+ | ## Exceptions may be made according to consensus. It would be just as valid for [[Batman]] or [[Superman]]'s pic to come from {{btas}}, {{tnba}}, {{stas}}, {{jl}} or {{jlu}}. However, it wouldn’t make sense for them to come from {{bb}}. |
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+ | # The ''History'' section of the main body of the article should describe the character from the first chronological appearance through the last chronological appearance. |
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+ | # Following the ''History'' section, there should be ''Alternate Timeline'' and ''Alternate Universe'' sections where appropriate. If an alternate timeline/universe version is a significant character in its own right, it should be separated into its own article. |
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+ | :::'''Example:''' "[[Savage Time]] Batman" remains a section in the [[Batman]] article, but each of the [[Justice Lords]] get their own article. |
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+ | So, per the [[Talk:Mister Freeze]] discussion, there is an apparent contradiction between the following items: |
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+ | * using the latest image available for said character |
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+ | * using the likeness that appeared most throughout the DCAU |
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+ | This may seem like an over-simplification, but do we really need either of these rules? I think standards are good, but at a point they become pedantic and counter-productive. I think the standard of an image that befits the character (capturing him/her at his/her best) is enough, and let common sense lead the way. |
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+ | When I look at the [[Mr. Freeze]] page or the [[Catwoman]] page, they both seem appropriate since they [their pages] have all likenesses of the character. I think a bigger problem is, for example, how [[Lex Luthor]]'s page does <u>not</u> have images of him as a businessman or in his power armor (or whatever it's called).--[[User:MichaelMogg]] 03:59, 7 December 2007 (UTC) |
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+ | :I agree. I think written guidelines are important so that we can support our edits and changes. However, sometimes they can become redundant and actually hinder progress. The main reason why we wrote those infobox images rules was to avoid changes based on whims and personal preferences and subsequent edit wars. But seeing how these guidelines are conflicting and confusing, I think we'd be better off with "The infobox image should depict the character's most recognizable likeness, unless consensus dictates otherwise." We can't have a rule and then 5 exceptions for it. Character's like [[Supergirl]] should have a picture in her early uniform — because that's her most consistent, accurate and recognizable look — unless general consensus goes for the new uniform. This conforms with the current [[DCAU:MOS#Article_and_Pictures|guideline]] and it not so complicated. ― '''[[User talk:Thailog|<font color="red">T</font>]][[User:Thailog|<font color="blue">hailog</font>]]''' 10:36, 8 December 2007 (UTC) |
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+ | ::Indeed, I second the alteration of the current rule. --<span style="color:darkblue;font-weight:bold;font-size:medium;font-family: Monotype Corsiva;">[[User:MichaelMogg|MichaelMogg]]</span> 11:19, 8 December 2007 (UTC) |
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Latest revision as of 11:21, 22 December 2017
This is an open discussion, not just an admin thing. If any other editors have any opinions on these subjects, please voice them.
--BoneGnawer 14:42, 6 November 2007 (UTC)I'm going to post here our points of disagreement so that we can discuss each one of them separately in an orderly fashion. If I leave any out, please include it.
Quality
- The image should be of the highest quality available. DVD screen-captures are preferred, with television recordings and other formats being secondary. In the case of duplicate images, the highest quality image is kept.
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- The image should be an accurate, dignifying representation of the character. There are plenty of fun moments to be found throughout the DCAU, but we strive to capture moments when the character is at his or her best.
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--BoneGnawer 17:13, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
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Replacement
- Replacing can take place when the original image:
- Is uncredited and/or unlicensed;
- Is of low resolution/quality;
- In this case, the original picture must be replaced by the exact same version (with better quality).
COMMENTS:
--BoneGnawer 17:13, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
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Other suggestions
- The character in the infobox should be standing still.
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- It should show as much as possible of the character (full-body).
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― Thailog 18:13, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
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- It should be a shot from the waist up.
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Proposed Additions
- Images should remain unaltered. Any changes of color levels, shading, brightness, contrast, alpha, etc., should be avoided, unless justified and according to consensus.
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Character Info Box Image Contradiction Discussion
- The introductory paragraph and infobox picture should be written/taken from the point of view of the series where the character has the most appearances.
Example: Terry McGinnis' infobox pic is taken from Batman Beyond, Static's is taken from Static Shock.
Note: For the purposes of determining which series a character has the most appearances in, Batman: The Animated Series and The New Batman Adventures are considered one series.- Exceptions may be made according to consensus. It would be just as valid for Batman or Superman's pic to come from Batman: The Animated Series, The New Batman Adventures, Superman: The Animated Series, Justice League or Justice League Unlimited. However, it wouldn’t make sense for them to come from Batman Beyond.
- The History section of the main body of the article should describe the character from the first chronological appearance through the last chronological appearance.
- Following the History section, there should be Alternate Timeline and Alternate Universe sections where appropriate. If an alternate timeline/universe version is a significant character in its own right, it should be separated into its own article.
- Example: "Savage Time Batman" remains a section in the Batman article, but each of the Justice Lords get their own article.
COMMENTS: So, per the Talk:Mister Freeze discussion, there is an apparent contradiction between the following items:
This may seem like an over-simplification, but do we really need either of these rules? I think standards are good, but at a point they become pedantic and counter-productive. I think the standard of an image that befits the character (capturing him/her at his/her best) is enough, and let common sense lead the way. When I look at the Mr. Freeze page or the Catwoman page, they both seem appropriate since they [their pages] have all likenesses of the character. I think a bigger problem is, for example, how Lex Luthor's page does not have images of him as a businessman or in his power armor (or whatever it's called).--User:MichaelMogg 03:59, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
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